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Takeda: Both ITOKI's "XORK Style" and "Calbee New Workstyle" have in common the fact that they give employees self-discretion and freedom. I think that also relates to the way management should be, and what impressed me as we were working on "Calbee New Workstyle" was when Mr. Ito said, "We have to manage with an assumption that people are good."
It was very helpful for the HR department to have the top management say, "It's okay to make some mistakes, but let's believe in people's potential and manage them." There are some people who really want to manage their subordinates, so there are voices of opposition. So it was easier to move forward when the top management said it so decisively.

Ito: Unless you create new value and destroy old things, the company will not change. In order to increase the number of people who can take such actions, I don't think administrative management is suitable.

Hirai: In that sense, I feel that choosing your own work style and place of work is a kind of training. To create the "new value" that Mr. Ito mentioned, we must change from a world that has been driven by instructions from above. We need to increase the number of people who can think and act for themselves. So we need to break away from the habit of doing a given job in a given place, and each person needs to choose their own place of work and task. I think that repeating this kind of thinking every day will lead to an increase in the number of people who create "new value."

Ito:It's strange, but the more detailed the management, or so-called micromanagement, the more subordinates will think, "I'll give 100% back" within the scope of what their superiors have told them to do. And when it comes to the superiors' evaluation criteria, they will focus on the demerit points, "how much they fell short within the scope of their instructions."
But I think work should be more adventurous and there should be a world where you might get 40 points, but one day you'll get 120 points as you keep trying. If we can think of creating something new from failure, everyone should be able to take on new challenges more actively.

Hirai: To increase the freedom of work and ideas, you should be free to choose where you work. That's a good way to think about it. Remote work remotely also has a point in increasing options and increasing freedom, so I think it's important for employees to consider the value of remote and real work and find the best environment for themselves.

Takeda: You mentioned the words "remote" and "real" value, but because remote work has become so common during the COVID-19 pandemic, I think the value of real-life communication will be questioned in the future. I think this also applies to the value of the office. What do you think?

Hirai: If I were to sum up the value of real estate and the value of an office, I would say it's the "fostering of relationships."
It can be between individuals or between individuals and companies. Reality is necessary for people and companies who have never met to build trust. It is true that we can connect online, but it is not easy to build trust online. Getting to know the true character of a person, empathizing with them, feeling their passion. I think that realness is about seeing through the true nature of the other person in a good way.

Ito: I really think so. It's much more difficult when the first business meeting is online. It would go more smoothly if you already had a real-life relationship with the other person.

Hirai: That's right. To get to know each other, we need a "soil" of trust, and it is because of this soil that the trees of relationships can grow even when talking online. If you try to do it online without the soil, you may be able to talk, but the trees will actually wilt. I think that building this soil is the value of the real world.

Ito: I also think that the real world is a place where many people gather, mix, and come up with various opinions. In the future, offices may become places specialized for communication rather than places to work. Our new office also aims to be a "space where people want to gather" that emphasizes communication, and I hope it will become a place where people can interact not only from within the company but also from outside the company.

Hirai: That's right. Offices will no longer be centered around work, but will become spaces that create new things through communication, including intermingling with other companies. In fact, I felt this strongly through the "Open Working Project" with Calbee.

Calbee and ITOKI launched an office sharing initiative based on the concepts of "developing people who enjoy working" and "designing tomorrow's work environment." For about two months, employees from both companies went back and forth between each other's workplaces, participating in workshops, events, and self-reflection while working.

Hirai: This is still a pilot project, but as a result of our so-called "cross-training" with Calbee employees, we have seen positive changes in the way WORK-Style. For example, several Itoki employees who were sympathetic to the "Calbee New Workstyle" have started an environment improvement project at our company.
Something new is born when strangers interact with each other and build the foundation for relationships. For that to happen, you need a real space. This is where the value of an office lies. I think this will become a major theme when considering the future of offices.

Ito: That's true. We want to expand opportunities for "cross-industry collaboration" to generate new value and innovation. Maybe we can come up with something new through interactions with employees from other companies. If we can create such opportunities in the office, we'll see an increase in even more interesting work. I'd love to make our new office a space like that. It would be great to have more opportunities to talk about all sorts of things like we did today. This kind of communication may lead to new ideas.

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He spoke candidly about the thoughts of leaders who are leading their employees through trial and error in the midst of major changes in the way they work. We hope that workers provided some hints for those who are wondering what kind of thinking will be required when they have the "freedom" of place and time.
We look forward to future efforts and collaborations between the two companies!
(We are also looking forward to Calbee's new office scheduled for completion in September.)

[Click hereTo see Calbee's completed office]